Creating One of The World's Biggest Podcasts | Brandon Turner

In this episode, Brandon Turner shares his experience as the creator and host of one of the world's largest podcasts. Since its origin in 2013, The Bigger Pockets Real Estate Investing Podcast has been ranked among the top 10 of all podcasts. Brandon shares what led to their success and how he's been able to remain podcasting consistently for all these years. Additionally, Brandon explains what he's learned and what he's doing differently with his latest show, A Better Life with Brandon Turner. Get ready to learn critical insights for how to improve your craft as a podcast guest and (or) host!

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Key Moments:
00:00:16 - Introduction
00:02:13 - Leaving BiggerPockets
00:03:50 - Transitioning as a Solo Podcaster
00:06:19 - Podcasting as a Business
00:08:47 - The Why Behind A Better Life
00:15:17 - Openness to Pivoting and Following Market Demand
00:17:38 - Self-Discipline and Accountability
00:22:56 - The Importance of Tracking and Accountability
00:24:06 - Surrounding Yourself with the Right People
00:26:45 - Quick Hacks for Goal Setting
00:28:09 - Overcoming Procrastination
00:30:41 - Staying Focused on Success Island
00:33:42 - The Importance of Consistency
00:34:47 - Book Recommendations for Podcast Guests and Hosts
00:36:30 - Brandon's Insights on Podcast Success


Timestamped Summary:

00:00:16 - Introduction
 They discuss Brandon's background and his transition from real estate to podcasting.

00:02:13 - Leaving BiggerPockets
Brandon explains why he decided to leave the BiggerPockets podcast after a decade of hosting.

00:03:50 - Transitioning as a Solo Podcaster
Brandon reflects on the challenges and uncertainties he faced when transitioning from a co-host to a solo podcaster.

00:06:19 - Podcasting as a Business
Alex and Brandon emphasize the importance of treating podcasting as a business, regardless of the topic or niche.

00:08:47 - The Why Behind "A Better Life"
Brandon explains the reason behind his pivot to his new podcast, "A Better Life."

00:15:17 - Openness to Pivoting and Following Market Demand
Brandon highlights the importance of being open to the market's feedback and adapting accordingly.

00:17:38 - Self-Discipline and Accountability
Brandon shares a story about his struggle with self-discipline and how having someone hold him accountable helped him make progress.

00:22:56 - The Importance of Tracking and Accountability
Tracking progress and having accountability are essential for staying motivated and achieving goals.

00:24:06 - Surrounding Yourself with the Right People
Surrounding yourself with people who make the impossible seem achievable is crucial for personal growth.

00:26:45 - Quick Hacks for Goal Setting
Having the support of loved ones is important for goal achievement.

00:28:09 - Overcoming Procrastination and Shiny Object Syndrome
Procrastination often stems from a pattern of breaking commitments in other areas of life.

00:30:41 - Staying Focused on Success Island
Many people get distracted by new trends and opportunities, which can lead to a lack of focus and procrastination.

00:33:42 - The Importance of Consistency
Brandon uses the analogy of going to the gym to emphasize the importance of consistency in podcasting.

00:34:47 - Book Recommendations for Podcast Guests and Hosts
Alex asks Brandon for book recommendations for podcast guests and hosts.

00:36:30 - Brandon's Insights on Podcast Success
Brandon shares his insights on podcast success based on his experience with Bigger Pockets and The Better Life show.

MORE FROM THIS EPISODE:

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

You're listening to Podcasting Made Simple. I'm your host, Alex Sanfilippo. For this episode's guide and resources, please visit podprosecom. And now let's get to the episode, Brandon Turner. Welcome to Podcasting Made Simple.

Speaker 2: 0:17

Dude, thank you for having me. This has been a long time coming, since last time we chatted. I'm pumped about it.

Speaker 1: 0:22

Yeah, super excited, and I thank you last time that we did recording together. I thank you again for giving up a little bit of time of the Maui waves to spend time with us. So thank you for that. I appreciate it. Yeah, man, let's get into it. So, opening question here and this is actually just me being curious Before I do any interview, I always do a lot of kind of research. I listen to interviews, I reread books right, we're both readers. I love that and I'm wondering is this the first time you've been on a podcast that's about podcasting?

Speaker 2: 0:48

It may be. I'm trying to think if there's any other show been on about podcasting Dang, yeah, I don't think. I don't think I have. I mean, yeah, and which is nice, because I mean I'm so used to talking about how to build wealth through real estate and buy rental properties and flip houses and build, you know, like become a millionaire. So you know people can follow pretty much every other thing that I do for that, but podcasts is actually what made everything else possible.

Speaker 1: 1:12

I love it. We're going to really dive into all that real quick, though. For anyone who's already disappointed and ready to like leave because you're like we're not talking about real estate and creating millions of dollars of wealth through it, right, like, just go Google beardy Brandon and you will find everything this guy does, or probably talk about it a little bit. But I really want to focus on podcasting because of the thing you just said. Right, in many ways it was the vehicle that got things spinning for you. So, again, you've achieved a lot in real estate, but I think and I should say I know a lot of what we're going to talk about today will use similar things that you learned through real estate. It's just the vehicle that you chose. That was the lane you decided to go in, but it works for podcasting as a guest or as a host as well. So I'm excited to explore some of like what makes you so successful at what you do and how that applies to podcasting.

Speaker 1: 1:54

So, first thing I want to just mention is, like I want to hone in on like your craft as a podcast, if anyone who doesn't know. So, first off, you've been a guest on hundreds of shows, mostly about real estate, of course, right, some productivity and stuff like that, which we'll probably have a little bit overlap here. But also you're the host, for like a decade, I believe, of the bigger pockets real estate investing podcast, which, for anyone who doesn't know that that is, was one of the largest shows in the world, like a top 10 or something like that. Right, it was huge. So for a decade doing that, and then you're still actively guessing on podcasts and now you have another show, your own show, which is a better life with brain and Turner, and I'll ask you some things about that.

Speaker 1: 2:30

Did I miss anything involving, like, your podcasting journey? No, that sounds about right Cool. So I want to first ask because this is probably the question everyone's thinking like, wow, a decade with a podcast that was a top 10 of all podcasts, right. I'm just curious, what made you decide to leave that podcast?

Speaker 2: 2:45

Yeah, man, I'm an entrepreneur, like in my heart, like in my soul, right? So, at the end of the day, bigger pockets is an amazing company. I love them. They're great people, they're doing great things. They're changing the world. It wasn't mine, it's owned by private equity. They're a great private equity company. I love them, they're great. It's still not mine, and so there's a soul mismatch when you have an entrepreneur trying to fit into the body of an employee and so you know, putting things through committee and having to have 15 layers of people to decide on things, it's just not my style, and so I would rather have a smaller podcast but own 100% of it, than to have one of the world's biggest podcasts and own very, very, very, very little of it, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1: 3:24

Yeah, did you have any? I mean, after 10 years, did you have any struggle with making that decision? We're just like I'm sick of this. I'm out of here Like what was that actual emotional? What was that like for you?

Speaker 2: 3:33

That's intense, man. I mean every year, for I mean because I'm I felt like I wasn't an entrepreneur early on. It took me nine years or two. It was really nine years of podcasting plus a year. You know, a year break is what I did, and I mean every year.

Speaker 2: 3:45

From year one, I was like, oh, I could do this on my own Cause I just I. It was like a puzzle piece that didn't quite fit, and I don't regret it. It got me to where I am and I would not have been and we could talk about this, but I would not have done it on my own. In fact, while my heart is entrepreneur, my actions were not. And that's actually a really vital distinction that people need to make is, your heart might say I'm an entrepreneur, but an entrepreneur has to be self-motivated and get up and do the work when no one's telling me to do the work.

Speaker 2: 4:12

And I did not have that skill set for a long, long time. I still, to a degree, don't have that skill set. I've just learned to hack it in ways that get me through it, Like it's like I have a, a missing arm, so I'd have to find different ways to open a jar. It's like that. It's like I had to figure out how to get around my lack of self-motivation. So the question that I had is am I Justin Timberlake or am I Lance Bass? Let me explain that. When N-Sync broke up and Justin Timberlake left N-Sync and she would say Lance Bass he actually did pretty well for himself. Who's the guy in N-Sync that nobody knows his name? I'm sure there's like probably three of them, right? I know Justin and Lance.

Speaker 1: 4:46

Yeah, I have other names.

Speaker 2: 4:48

All the other names right. So the question was when I left bigger pockets, could I make it as a solo act, so to speak, or am I going to go down as just an obscure something and disappear off the planet? And that was the the debate I had, and I'm not sure I know yet what the answer is. But I also believe that being Justin Timberlake is not about luck.

Speaker 2: 5:10

Justin could have gone down into nothing had he sat on the couch and had he just watched TV every day and been like well, I got millions of dollars, now what do I need to work? He went out there and did movies and he made more albums than he wrote some really good music, and so he didn't rest on his laurels, he just kept climbing. And so I've taken that approach, as whether or not I'm Justin Timberlake and talent, I have no idea, I don't think so in terms of like podcasting. However, in work ethic, I have tried to make up for it and in even more than work ethic, in vision and saying this is where I'm headed I'd try to make up for it.

Speaker 1: 5:43

We're gonna dive into both those things in a couple of minutes here. Before we get into that, though, I do wanna just clarify something, because you immediately went to calling it like did I have what it takes to be an entrepreneur? You didn't for a while, as you said, right, and I think immediately, people that are watching and listening to this, they're saying well, my podcast isn't about being an entrepreneur, or my podcast's guessing isn't about that. But here's the thing a podcast, like any form of content creation, it's a business. You are an entrepreneur, and I just had that conversation with somebody today, was like in a public forum actually, and they're like listen, my podcast is about like I think it was something to do with like keeping the earth green right, and like it's not a business.

Speaker 1: 6:18

I'm not trying to make money. I'm like but you have to run it that way or you're just not going to make it. So I think that the fact that you brought that up and had that realization of would I be able to do this is extremely important on either side of the mic.

Speaker 2: 6:29

Yeah, it's everything. When you say, like, what does it mean to run a business, then it's like it's having goals, it's having standards, it's having a culture, it's having consistency, it's having persistence. Yeah, it's having a level of like accountability to get things done. Like those are. That's what a business does, and if you do it right it grows, and so the same way and it's successful. Not a hundred percent, but it sure is a thousand times more likely to succeed than just throwing crap out there Like, yeah, I've known podcasters too I mean, you probably know way more than me, but who are like I'm going to start a podcast.

Speaker 2: 6:59

And then they like, do an episode and maybe maybe do a second episode if they're lucky, and then never continue it again Cause they're not treating it like a business, they're just treating it like oh, just, let's just do a podcast. It's like the Thomas Edison quote of like work show. You know people often mistake work because it shows up or does it luck every day, cause it shows up in overalls and gets to work. It's like, yeah, you, just, if you treat it like a business, that's going to be more successful. I'm almost guaranteed.

Speaker 1: 7:23

Yeah, I love that man and I want to get into some of those tactics today. Before we do that, I have one more question about your podcasting journey that I'm actually very curious about. So it turns out you are the Justin Timberlake of podcasting, by the way, Brandon.

Speaker 2: 7:33

Thank you, thank you for thinking so.

Speaker 1: 7:35

Yeah, when you decided to start your own show, you pivoted away from real estate, which I was personally following. Your journey really shocked. When I saw the title A Better Life I assumed it was going to be a better life through real estate. But your episode zero, as you called it, right Like the trailer episode, you start off saying this is not about real estate. It might get covered, wealth might get covered. That's not what it's about and I was actually very shocked by that. And this probably gets a little bit into your why for podcasting. Anyway, and I think that's to me that's point zero, right, the most important thing is having a strong why. Why did you decide to do this? Like, what was the reason of such an aggressive pivot?

Speaker 2: 8:11

Yeah, that's a great question and I don't know if it was the right choice and I'll expand on that in just a second. I mean maybe backtracking a little bit, and that's just part of again treating it like a business, as you sometimes pivot. But let me explain. The question at the beginning that I went back and forth on is I can be the biggest fish in a very small pond, or immediately small pond, which is real estate investing, like I already am. The like this is whatever the most popular podcaster in real estate investing. I already have like five of the top 10 books in Amazon on real estate investing. I'm already the one of the biggest fishes in real estate investing and I can stay there and I could continue to be the big fish in real estate investing. But my ego and my desire to grow says that that is a small pond compared to a much bigger pond of just human development or personal development or whatever you want to call that, just success or whatever. And so I decided I would rather shoot for a bigger potential but to have a harder climb to get there. So, like competing in the world of Lewis Howes and Steven Bartlett and Chris Williamson, competing in that space is a way more challenging game, but I mean Alex Hermosi, right? I mean, look at, like these guys, like just massive, massive, massive reach and audiences. And so I decided I wanted to play in that space because I'm good enough to and not saying I'm better than them in any way but I have 10 years of experience to learn how to play in that space. I'm gonna be way better off than most people just starting there with zero right. So that was the choice I made.

Speaker 2: 9:44

Now, that said, this is probably more important why podcast? Let's go to a really fundamental question why do we even start podcasts? There has to be a reason for it of some kind. Everybody's got a reason. So, when I look at my reason today of why a podcast, it's to grow my personal brand. Well, why do I need to grow my personal brand? Well, specifically, I've got two. I've actually got five, six companies right now, but let's just go with the two biggest ones. Who's counting, though, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, who's counting whatever? Six, five, six changes actually every month, but the two biggest companies I have are Open Door Capital. We have about 10,000 units of rental properties. We've raised over $300 million that company, if I do it right over the next decade will make me a billionaire. That's insane to say out loud, but it's true. If I do it the way that our financials have projected, in 15 years from now or less, I'll be a billionaire.

Speaker 2: 10:34

So why do I need a podcast? Because in order to get to that level, I have to raise hundreds of millions of dollars. How do I raise hundreds of million dollars? I do it from podcasting. By getting millions of people to know, like and trust me, and podcasting is the greatest path towards the no-like trust factor scaling that's ever been seen on this earth. It is by far the best thing, and more than TV, more than YouTube, more than any of that is podcasting. There's something magical about people listening to you every week for an hour or more half hour hour whatever, week after week after week. That builds the no-like trust factor All right. So I need to podcast to grow my wealth through Open Door Capital.

Speaker 2: 11:14

I also have this other company called the Better Life Tribe. It's a tribe it's accountability mastermind where 100% of profits go to fight human trafficking. We currently have right around a thousand members paying right around $300 a month. We're gonna have a new, higher tier pretty soon with some performance coaching. That goal is to give away $50 million every year to fight human trafficking and I don't think it'll be that hard. 10,000 people at 500 bucks a month will get us $50 million a year to give away. So what do I need for that to grow? I need millions of people to know, like and trust me.

Speaker 2: 11:41

So let me sum all this together and why I might be pivoting. Because when I play in the Lewis House Chris Williamson, stephen Bartlett, that space of just general personal development, the Joe Rogan space of just whatever I wanna talk about I might be able to get more people to listen, but I'm not necessarily getting the right people to listen and to convert. So I don't podcast for fame, I podcast for conversion. I'm gonna say that again, cause that's super important. I don't podcast for fame, for numbers, I podcast for conversion. They have to suit my needs.

Speaker 2: 12:16

I have a friend who has five million followers on YouTube. In the finance space he also has one of the biggest podcasts in the world. He couldn't raise a million dollars At the same time. In the same time period, I raised $120 million. He couldn't raise a million for a real estate deal and I raised 120. Why? Because the size of the audience doesn't matter, it's who the audience is.

Speaker 2: 12:37

So that's why I may be shifting. I'm gonna shift a little heavier back into real estate because, at the end of the day, I need people to give me money for open or capital to partner with me, and I need people to join the better life tribe. And the market says real estate investors are the ones doing that. The real estate investors, the one giving me money, real estate investors the ones joining the tribe. As much as I wanted to go bigger, it's really hard to sell a product that says I'm gonna give you a better life with habits and goals. People are like, okay, well, I'm not gonna pay for that. But if I said I'm gonna give you a tribe that's gonna guarantee you get financial freedom in three years or less, you can quit your job. People will pay 500 bucks a month for that all day long, right? So I now podcast for conversion and that's why I'm going to be not necessarily going away from the personal development, but I'm gonna add on more real estate content.

Speaker 1: 13:19

Brandon, not just a patch in the back, but kudos to you first off, because a proper why as a podcast guest or host is always something that's bigger than yourself. It has to go beyond you. Thanks, I wrote down to bring at the point that the better life tribe gives away a hundred percent of the profit. Love what you're doing there and that right there. That makes the why bigger than yourself. It's not so that, brandon, can be like I have a billion dollars my bank account one day, right, like that's not the idea. It's what's the impact I'm going to leave long-term. So again, kudos to you. That's amazing to see. You said something just so important.

Speaker 1: 13:46

I don't podcast for fame, I podcast for conversion, and what that really is talking about is the avatar. Yes, who is it that you serve, which anyone who's here heard me talk? I always go back to that deal listener slash avatar, and if you're a guest or host, you've got to have somebody. I love the fact that you're out trying new things, because that is like the definition of an entrepreneur, right, yeah, but then figure out and honing it back to who is it that I really serve, that's really gonna help complete this mission. That's bigger than both of us. I love that you've gone in there and really you're honing that in man. I respect that so much.

Speaker 2: 14:17

Thanks, man. At the end of the day, yeah, I mean if it helps you give away 15 million dollars a year to fight human trafficking or more, and if it helps me become a Billion-Earthed real estate and I have a mortgage company that's launching that could be a billion-dollar business. I have a few other zero side hustles, like a high-ticket real estate mastermind, but like if it helps all those grow, I would sing on a podcast. I would do a podcast about movies. I would do a podcast about like I'm not gonna do one about something I don't like or care about, but I would pivot to almost anything if it accomplishes my goal and my goals of conversion, which means sales, which means success. So I will, I will do what needs to.

Speaker 2: 14:50

There's a very good book called the lean startup From Eric Reese or rice. Are I yes or are you I S? Anyway, eric wrote this book called the lean startup and it basically says you do not know what business is going to work. The market decides that. So you might have a theory that says I'm going to podcast about Movies. And then you start doing it and you realize every time you do talk about movies it does okay, but anytime you venture into the world of Musicians who are in movies. All of a sudden that episode kills it. Okay, well then the market has determined that musicians in movies is more popular than movies. So you can pivot if you want to grow and get into that and you get to still be true to yourself and your interests and all that. But being open to the market I think is super important when it comes to wanting to scale, unless you're happy being small and just having a passion project. That's cool too.

Speaker 1: 15:38

Oh man. So in the name of not podcasting for fame, but instead conversion, we are now going to hear a live performance.

Speaker 2: 15:44

Yes, brandon Turner, here we go, bring your guitar. Where is that actually? I'm into rap now, so I'm gonna be rapping.

Speaker 1: 15:50

Oh, great, well, go ahead and beat or whatever it is like started up and let's go.

Speaker 2: 15:54

Man, man, I beat machines broken, Sorry you know I'm sorry everybody.

Speaker 1: 15:58

We'll just keep the interview going then. So I do apologize, man, I'm not gonna edit this out, just like last time?

Speaker 2: 16:05

I hope not.

Speaker 1: 16:06

Yeah, so we're just gonna keep this thing moving along. Here I want to get into the point that we've kind of hit it out since the start, which is talking about some of the systems, the processes. The SOP is the standard operating procedures, right. But right before that I want to talk about something that here you say a lot in regards to self-discipline. But first off, aside from having a really strong why and person that you're serving, the number one contributing factor to someone's success in Podcasting is self-discipline. Here's the thing, brandon, I hear you say all the time I don't have a lot of self-discipline. I struggle with it you talk about all the time. You already hinted at these productivity haps. But first off, how have you made it as a podcaster if you really struggle with it? Which is the number one contributor to failure slash success? Can you talk about that? We'll kind of get into some of the practicalities of it.

Speaker 2: 16:48

Sure, I'll explain in a story. So a few years ago I wanted to get into racquetball. This is right, eight years ago now. I really like the idea of racquetball. And so I could get up, and I could get up early Before work and I would go grab my ball in my racket and I'd go down to the YMCA, which is 30 minutes away, and I would just go whack the ball around. Maybe, maybe I find a partner there with somebody who's standing there and wants to play. But probably not. And you know how many times I did that. Zero times, zero times, right. But then I met this guy, robert. We became good friends. He went to my church and he's like hey, I love racquetball, you want to play sometime? I'm like, yes, I do. So the next morning at 5 30 am he's outside my house and he's like let's go. And I'm like okay. So I wake up and I go out and I play racquetball. And for the next year we played four times a week because he would show up at my house at 5 30 am and we'd go play racquetball. I never missed a dime because I had somebody there.

Speaker 2: 17:35

I will disappoint myself and my own ambitions and my own dreams and I will let tick-tock or Instagram or YouTube Overtake it and I will lie in bed and I will do nothing, unless I have someone there at my house who shows up and says let's go play racquetball. So how does that apply to Podcasting? I have people who I am obligated to show up and I will let myself down, but I will not let other people down and most people are the same way as long as there's somebody else involved. Now I'm gonna show up and do it. I mean, there's a million studies that back this up. If you want to go to the gym, just get a gym buddy.

Speaker 2: 18:08

If you wanted podcasts like somehow I had to get other people obligated, so I hired actually, when I launched the new podcast, I hired a full-time podcast person. Could I afford it? I mean not from the podcast body has makes no money and it donates all the profits away anyway. In fact, every bit of ad revenue this is kind of a fun hack we did every, not just profit, but a hundred percent of the ad revenue from every show go toward a Charity of the guests choosing and I asked that.

Speaker 2: 18:32

Live on the call every single week, I say or on the video I say so what breaks your heart? Where do you wish we send all the money from this episode? And it's not a lot it's like a thousand bucks in episode right now, but anyway, it's a cool moment. It's a great talking point in the episode, sure, and it makes the guests go like one incentivize because we charge. You know, we pay ads based on CPM so they can go out and get there a podcast to get downloaded more and I Now can give more money way to their charity. So, anyway, does the business make money? No, but I knew that if I didn't invest in a full-time person that showed up every single week and got the thing going and made it work, I just would not do it. So the answer is the number one answer to my lack of self-discipline and self-motivation is to obligate myself to other people so that I will not let them down like I let myself down.

Speaker 1: 19:18

Man, that accountability right that person in your life you're like that's absolutely huge. I know, like you said, there are very few people in. The studies are conclusive. There are very few people that are just okay with letting others down, right, and I guess that's kind of the accountability for a podcast guest. If you're gonna be on somebody's show, you know they're waiting for you right, so like chances are, you're probably not gonna be like, eh, I don't really feel like it.

Speaker 1: 19:36

No, there's somebody waiting in a green room right For you to show up, and as the host, I always say this like, yes, your listeners can be your accountability, but because you don't have ongoing interaction with them, usually there's gotta be more to that, and so I don't necessarily recommend hiring someone as Brandon did. Thankfully, you're in a place where that made sense, right. But in general, there are small communities that you can be part of that people can help you, like, just help you be accountable. Brandon, what are some best practices you find for being held accountable, especially from a content creation perspective, because you blogged for years, you've written tons of books, right. Like someone has held you accountable strictly for, hey, are you creating this content, right? Do you have some best practices or ideas around that?

Speaker 2: 20:14

Yeah, man, I mean, a huge piece of it just comes down to identifying what are the actions you want to do. So, whether it's and on a weekly basis, I like to do it on a weekly basis. So I literally have this journal. I call it the Better Life Book. We give it to all of our tri members and it's like, got this every week, has a habit tracker page, and so you write down, first of all, your three goals that you're trying to work towards. So every week I rewrite my three goals. Then I've got these habits that I write down, and habits could be anything from record one podcast per week to go on a date with my wife twice, to read my Bible every single morning and to did I have dinner with the kids? Did I go to the gym, and you write down the number of times you want to do it. So I'm gonna go to the gym three times. Two dates with the wife, dinner at the family six times, whatever those things are. Podcast two, one, whatever the number is.

Speaker 2: 21:00

Now, at least, I have identified what it is I want to do. What I have defined as a better life, as an ideal life, is. This is what I know I need to do in order to accomplish the goals and vision that I've set for my life. So A just by tracking it will 10 extra chance of getting things done. Like just by tracking it. Did I do it? Did I not do it? It takes 30 seconds every morning. Did I do it? Did I not do it? Did I go on a date with my wife yesterday? No, Did I eat dinner with the family? Yes, At the end of the week. Now I have a score. A perfect week is 42. I got a 25. Ooh, that's not so good. That's like a D. Maybe next week I knew better than that. And so tracking is a huge hack to getting yourself motivated to actually get that stuff done and then adding accountability.

Speaker 2: 21:41

So every single week I meet with three other dudes and we meet on a call and we say these like five or six questions. We say my three goals that I'm working for are ABC. So we write down, we say what those are out loud, Just so it's again a reminder every week if this is what I'm working towards. Last week when we were on this call, I committed to what we make some commitment every week. I'll come back to that. Last week I committed to blank. Did I do it or did I not do it?

Speaker 2: 22:08

The habits that I struggled with because I've got my habits written down the ones that I struggled with were what. The ones that I did great with were what. And then this week I commit to what. So it's those ones, that five or six questions that we say each person goes around the circle and we ask it every single week. Those five things and just that. Accountability Now somebody knows whether or not I'm doing dates with my wife. Now somebody knows whether I'm doing the podcast, and that's a huge boom to my life, Just adding those two things tracking and accountability.

Speaker 1: 22:39

That's great, man. I'm glad you don't go the Michael Scott route from the office where he says I thrive with no accountability. That's right. That's true, right. But something that I think is really important I've heard you say on your own podcast a better life about accountability is, you say, to surround yourself with people who make the impossible seem like a Tuesday morning, tuesday morning, yeah, yeah, and I think that's just beautifully said, because it's like, man, who do you surround yourself with?

Speaker 1: 23:00

You can't just get random people that maybe don't have the mindset of like now we're taking this thing somewhere. Right, you've got to have the right people. So if anyone's listening or watching this and wondering who is that accountability for me, let me just find some rather random podcasts, hosts or guests and just employ them right. Let's make it happen together. No, you want to see the ones that you're like this is impossible, but they do this on a Tuesday, just in the morning with their coffee, right. And I think that making sure you have the right accountability is key, because I imagine those three people aren't random, three people in your life. They are people that you respect, that you probably don't want to let down. They're also going places, right?

Speaker 2: 23:33

Yeah, it's so important. Yeah, and they don't have to be perfect at it, they just got to be working at it, just like I'm working on it. And they have to be consistent. Now, when people don't show up to pod calls or accountability calls, they fall apart, which is why we have structure, very specific structure. Those questions are designed specifically so that we don't get off track. It's huge.

Speaker 2: 23:51

I'm gonna give you another example of that. Like I've got some friends that Jeff and Megan they live about a block north of me or up the hill of me here in my neighborhood they go to the gym five days a week, six days a week. They are the most in shape couple I know I mean ridiculously in shape. I mean Jeff's a former, like Marine, megan has like this stupid six pack. Like they. Like they like work. I mean they do upside like handstand pushups, like just in the gym. I don't want to be them. I don't want to be that in shape. I'm just that's not who I am.

Speaker 2: 24:17

But you know what they make the impossible, like having a six pack or having like big muscles or doing an upside down pushup, whatever. They make that look like a Tuesday morning. So I like actually going to the gym with them. In fact, just by the fact that they moved here, I don't know, six months ago, I go to the gym now like four times a week, not five, not six, but I go like three to four times a week now and I've lost 15 pounds in the past.

Speaker 2: 24:37

I don't know whatever. Like yeah, four months, five months since doing that because they're there, they make the impossible of that look like a Tuesday morning. So in sometimes you have to pay to get in those rooms. Like if you're like, hey, I want to be a podcaster, how do I? If you're brand new at podcasting, you may not be able to get into a small accountability group with you. Know you or I, right? Like we're not probably going to do that, unless somebody you may have to pay for it. So then you pay for access to people who make the impossible look like a Tuesday morning.

Speaker 1: 25:02

That's great, man. You know I want to transition here because I've got a bunch of little like quick hacks.

Speaker 1: 25:06

I want to get through, just because I think that you've, after a decade or more of podcasting, at this point on both sides of the mic, like you've got some stuff that you can share.

Speaker 1: 25:13

This is actually going into some goal setting stuff that you do, and this is something I was just like randomly thinking about, because I get on the calls with a lot of podcast guests and hosts and one of the most common things I hear is, oh, my partner doesn't, doesn't really get it right, or my husband or my wife, my significant other, my girlfriend, my boyfriend, right, there's like I don't really like understand it, and I think the problem is something I've heard you bring up, and that's the importance of bringing the people that are most important to you into your goal setting. They maybe don't need to know like I'm going to do 10 podcasts this month. They need to know why, going back to that right, they need to know why you're doing it. Can you just talk about the importance of bringing these other people in? Because I think one of the reasons a lot of people pod fade is it's called the biz right On either side of the mic is because they can't get the buy-in from the person that's closest to them.

Speaker 2: 25:54

Yeah, let me give you a few thoughts on that. How to get your partner spouse whatever romantic interest, how to get them on board. Yeah, let me give you a few thoughts there. First of all, I think a lot of people use that more as an excuse to stop taking action. Everybody is this is going to sound weird Everybody is looking for a reason to quit all the time.

Speaker 2: 26:11

Like, human nature is to look for a reason to quit. And so people will take almost any reason to quit Like, oh, you know, I've been going to the gym for a long time but you know, I just I'm not feeling real good right now, or I hurt my leg or whatever. Everyone's looking for a reason to quit podcasting, going to the gym, being a good husband, everything in life. Everyone's looking for a reason to quit. That sounds so weird, but like that's just human nature. So they use the my spouse isn't supporting me as an excuse. So, first of all, if you're thinking, oh, my spouse isn't supporting me, so I'm going to quit, understand that that's you. Just try to find an excuse, your self-sabotaging. Second, have you been a person of your word in other areas of your life with that romantic partner, with that person or not, because chances are you have let them down in other ways that they no longer trust your ambitions. What I mean by that is you were like I'm going to do the Peloton, and then you paid three grand for a Peloton and now the Peloton's sitting in your attic or sitting in your basement has been used in six months.

Speaker 2: 27:07

What have you just taught yourself and your spouse? You've taught them that you're not reliable, that you are willing to spend thousands of dollars on something and then not live up to it. You get a gym membership, you don't show up. You buy this new, fancy, whatever camera and then you don't go take pictures with it. So there is a pattern of distrust that has been built up and that's why they don't believe you that you're actually going to podcast when you say you're going to. And the third thing is this what you alluded to is are you including them in conversations about your shared vision together? Are you setting goals as a couple together? And it goes back to the I don't podcast for fame, I podcast for conversion, for a reason. So when you sit down with your spouse, you're like I'm gonna start a podcast. They're like, all right, yep, go ahead. Well, you'll be done with this next week.

Speaker 1: 27:49

I'm like we all know people in their life that are like that right, that's the same they do something and we're like, yep, okay, I don't last a week.

Speaker 2: 27:54

Some new, like crappy vegan restaurant just came in down the street and me and my wife were just like, yep, that'll last two weeks, like that. You just tell, like certain people just, whatever, all right, so you don't need to necessarily say, hey, I'm going to podcast why? Hey, honey, I want to get you out of your job. I believe the best way to do that is to start a business that is like as a consultant, I think I can make six figures because this is what I would charge. If I can do that, I can get you out of your job so you can be a stay at home mom. Okay, to do that.

Speaker 2: 28:21

I believe the best way to do that is to podcast consistently. That will give me the followers. I know that because Alex told me that, or Pat Flynn told me that, or Brandon Turner told me that here's what I want to do. How does that sound? Can we work on these goals together to get you what you want, not just because I'm excited about some new fad? So those are some thoughts on how to get your person on board, maybe.

Speaker 1: 28:41

Man that'll preach right there. That's good stuff, man, moving along here. Another way that people quit is through procrastination. Specifically a form of it that many people aren't really aware of is shiny objects. We're all trying to. I've heard you call this before success island.

Speaker 1: 28:54

We're all trying to get there as fast as we can. So we build more and more bridges and that's like ooh well, tiktok. Ooh well, now there was threads right. And like there's this and there's this. And so we kind of like here's the core when we say hold on, what's this? And I believe that a lot of people they may not, maybe it's not even conscious I want to get your thoughts on this but they seem to just jump so fast in those things when the proven model in front of them that is working maybe not as fast as they'd like, but instead of feeding that machine they keep on jumping into other ones, and I think that's another form of people trying to quit. They just are scared of maybe what this will turn into, but I don't know. Do you have thoughts on this?

Speaker 2: 29:30

Yeah, you know, I just saw a post from Chris Williamson, who has what is a modern wisdom I think it's called something like that podcast, huge, huge, huge, at least a YouTube show slash. You know, whatever I mean. One of the biggest podcasts in the world. He gets everybody. And he made a post on Instagram that other day that said something like and I'm gonna probably get the number off a little bit, but it's extreme. He said it was three. It took him 300 episodes before he crossed a million followers on YouTube. That blew my mind, because he's one of the best podcasters in the world in terms of like this content, his quality and everything. It's just phenomenal. It took him 300 episodes to get a million people to follow him.

Speaker 2: 30:06

It just shows like it takes so much more time than you think it's going to, but every single time you get a rep in, you are getting stronger, you are getting better. It's very much exponential growth, and so what happens is, in almost anything is there's this exponential growth. I know people a lot of them are listening, they can't see me, but imagine a line that's just basically straight, and then it slowly starts to curve up and eventually hockey stick is what they call it and boom, it shoots off. That's how, most of the time when I see businesses grow, it looks like that it's five to 10 years of looking like you're making no progress and very, very little progress, and then someday you look back and you're like whoa shoot, look how far I've come.

Speaker 2: 30:46

But what happens is people put in a few years and then they don't see the progress necessarily happening, and so then they go and start a new thing, but then they start back over at the bottom. They start back over with another thing that takes 10 years to get there. And so just remembering that it's about getting your reps in and then continually improving on those reps Like just because you're doing the same thing over and over doesn't mean it's gonna succeed. But doing the same thing over and over, pivoting as needed, leaning into what people want and are asking for, and then finding ways to constantly say how do I do this better next week? And you do that for several years Now, you're gonna have some progress and you're gonna start making a more successful business or podcast out of it.

Speaker 1: 31:21

It reminds me of a Jerry Rice quote today I'll do what others can't, so tomorrow I can have what they want right, yeah, that's good.

Speaker 1: 31:26

Maybe I messed it up a little bit, but something along those lines. But the reason I bring that up is because he's a perfect example. He probably heard that from his dad. Someone was coaching him all in the way Before the dude was at least in college. I mean, he had 18 years of playing where nobody knew who he was, nor did anybody care. Thankfully in podcasting the roadmap isn't that long, but that's somebody who was devoted to it became one of the best NFL players of all time. But there was 18 years in the dark of practice and if he didn't do that 18 years, you better believe he would not have been one of the best players in the NFL of all time.

Speaker 1: 31:54

And I think I just reinforced the point we've got to stick with it.

Speaker 2: 31:57

So I was gonna say I've been using that kind of gym metaphors, but I think they're always so applicable. It's like the person who goes to the gym for four months, right, and they're like well, I don't really see any muscle change, I'm not really losing a lot of weight, so they stop. But as we all know, if you stuck with the gym for three years, maybe hired a personal trainer, maybe hired a dietician if you needed to, or at least got some kind of diet plan, three years from now you will look completely different than you did in the beginning. But you never notice the change. You can't see it. And so majority people yeah, they pod fade. I like that phrase, that was a good one Cause they it's like oh, I went to the gym for three months and I didn't see any progress. Or even in podcasts it's worse. Right, I did three podcasts that I didn't see any change. I went, lifted weights one time and I didn't see myself look like you know, I don't know, whatever the rocks. So therefore I'm quitting. Stick with it, people.

Speaker 1: 32:44

Stick with it. I love that man. Hey, before we end our time together, I do want to ask you if any final thoughts for podcast guests and hosts. But first we like to read both of us. So I'm wondering do you I'm putting you on the spot here Do you have any? Just give us like maybe two quick book recommendations that you think would actually really help podcast guests and podcast hosts. Of course you're going to for anyone listening. Brandon is currently just looking at these massive stuff, of books.

Speaker 1: 33:05

So what do you got, man? What do you think?

Speaker 2: 33:07

I just made a video called 22 books that'll guarantee to make you a millionaire. It's coming out on YouTube soon. Ooh, nice, I have all the books in my office. I'm going to tell you a couple of them. Number one the war of art by Stephen Pressfield. That's not the art of war, the war of art. Yeah, that one. Yeah, every creative should read that one 10 times, like I read it annually at least. The war of art is phenomenal. Another great one that you probably maybe you've read before, but it's called Four Disciplines of Execution by Chris McChesney. Have you read that one?

Speaker 1: 33:31

I haven't. I've actually never heard of that one. That's one for me, so thank you, love love, love, love.

Speaker 2: 33:36

Yeah, it's love that book. It's written by Chris McChesney and, like Stephen Covey's not Stephen Covey, but it's like a son maybe or brother, I don't know. It's a Covey put out by the Covey Institute or whatever it's called Four Disciplines of Execution. It is phenomenal. That's a great one. Matthew Dix wrote a book called Storyworthy. He's a competitive storyteller like the moth or one of those kinds of things. It's all about competitive storytelling, which sounds like why don't I read that? But every person I've recommended that book to falls in love with it. It shows you how to to communicate better and how to tell better stories. So that one for sure, I would add to the list. And then the last one I would do is 80, 20 sales and marketing by Perry Marshall. It's a great book on just like knowing how to outsource more and knowing how to get other people to do more things for you, knowing your dollar per hour and knowing how to grow in the world of marketing. So there's a few for you.

Speaker 1: 34:22

Very cool, didn't let me down. There's three books, three of the four I need to check out.

Speaker 2: 34:26

So you're obviously heading me this year in reading. I love it.

Speaker 1: 34:28

Brandon, any final thought for us today before I let you go?

Speaker 2: 34:30

I would say this when I look at my success in podcasting over the past decade, when bigger pockets launched, we had a little. We had an email list of 100,000 people. So it's not like we launched with zero, right, we were starting ahead, but we also didn't have an email list with a four million like bigger pockets has today. So what I mean by that and there are other companies who have launched I mean there are podcasters that happen constantly. Every week there'd be a new podcast from somebody and we'd be like threatened by it, not gonna say threatened in a bad way, but you're like, oh man, that's gonna be a huge show, that's gonna give us like some real competition and they're gonna probably cause we are the biggest real estate show in the world. We're like, oh, that's a way bigger audience and then 99% of the time, in fact maybe 100% of the time, no real estate show ever beat bigger pockets consistently Never, not ever. Now, why is that? Why did bigger pockets do so well? Why is the Better Life show that I'm doing a Better Life, better End Turner? Why is it growing faster than bigger pockets did at the beginning? What makes it like that? Let me give a few guesses and I don't know for sure, but here's a few guesses.

Speaker 2: 35:24

Number one people need to be entertained. Don't forget that entertainment matters so much. It's not necessarily how, how funny entertainment, but it's the way you talk, the way you communicate, the types of content you're bringing. Entertainment is like key. It's. In fact, I would argue that it's more important than actually the education you're providing or whatever it is you're doing is to somehow entertain people or they will not listen. So entertainment's huge. And number two is people. I once had somebody say this. They said they invested in Opener Capital because of the way that I talked about my wife on the podcast and that was such a huge point. Not trying to pat myself on the back, but I'm saying people got to know me, the person Brandon Turner, and that leads to conversions. So I'm not something like just person on a show that they can't relate with. It's like I talk about my kids, I talk about my family, I talk about my struggles, my insecurities.

Speaker 2: 36:14

The number one thing people talk about more than anything else that I've ever talked about on podcasts is that I've mentioned it maybe twice ever that I am super insecure about the way that I talk. I cannot listen to a podcast episode of myself. I never done it. I've listened to an episode of the Bigger Pocket Spot Guest. Never listened to an episode of Better Life. Cannot do it, cannot do it.

Speaker 2: 36:34

And the fact that I say that everyone's like, oh, I'm the same way. Oh, my gosh, I feel that way too. I hate the way I sound and all of a sudden I've now built a connection point because I was real with someone. Now I am deliberate about being real, so I call it like intentional authenticity. I am intentional about being authentic. It's not fake authenticity, which is like I'm gonna say that I don't like my voice to maybe, like you know, connect with people on a deeper level. No, it's real. I'm just not hiding it. I'm intentional about showing my flaws and showing my insecurities, and that builds a solid relationship and then people get to know me and they like me because of that. So my encouragement there is be entertaining and be authentic.

Speaker 1: 37:13

Man, okay, so I think that's so great and I got that last part. Be entertaining, make it fun, right? Don't listen to even those funny person in the world. The other thing you just mentioned I call that the three Rs of content real, raw and relevant. You can get really good at those three things. You can just crush it in podcasting. Anyway, brenda, same as our last conversation, I feel like I could talk to you forever, like your time has flown by. But, man, thank you so so much for spending this time with us today. It means so much to me. I learned a lot and I believe everyone else did as well. So thank you again for being here.

Speaker 1: 37:38

Thank you for having me man Appreciate you. If you enjoyed this episode, please visit podproscom, slash 262. Then share the link with one person that you believe it would add value to. Until next time, thank you for listening.